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Chapter 10 Page 41

March 8th, 2016, 5:08 pm

Average Rating: 5.00
Why spell when you can yell.
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Author's Comments:

Reply H0lyhandgrenade, March 8th, 2016, 5:08 pm

Sooo I just wanted to say.

I've very much been enjoying reading people's comments and opinions, it's really great hearing what you guys think. There's plenty that I'd like to talk about too, but I'm of the belief that an author should keep their opinions to themselves while they're still working on a story, because otherwise... What's the point of telling the story? Basically what I'm saying is I've been finding this super cool to work on, and I'm looking forward to the end, after which I'm gunna have plenty to say about why I wrote it and such.

Speaking of the end, I've been seeing a few people saying that they know some things won't happen because we can't be near the end yet, and there's yet to be parts that happened in the original fairytale... But I'm just gunna say, this story won't necessarily follow the fairytale so close as to include everything it did, and the end may not be all so far off... This isn't one of those webcomics that continues forever. So anything could happen ;)

Oh, also ^^; I'm sorry if it feels like things are going a little slow at the moment; comes with the weekly updates. I don't really want to rush an important scene for the sake of it though, when the pages are really meant to be read in succession. If you'd fancy checking out my Patreon, there is a milestone that would bring us up to double updates per week, and there's plenty bonuses, too =)
https://www.patreon.com/h0lyhandgrenade?ty=h

Phew, big post. See y'all soon.

Reply Advertisement, April 26th, 2017, 8:25 pm

User's Comments:

Reply Nyzer (Guest), March 8th, 2016, 5:24 pm

I agree with that, H0ly. There are some things you could comment on (such as, for example, the fact that it's possible for it to deviate hard from the original fairy tale), but most of what you could say WOULD just be giving too much away... and it's a little bit more fun as a reader to not have that insight into the story - to be taken a little more off-guard by unexpected twists and turns.

Plus it leaves a lot more room open for speculation, haha!

And I don't feel like it's going slowly. This confrontation between the two of them needs to play out. Rushing it would just weaken the importance of it.

This set of dialogue has Chris' increased maturity and responsibility coming into play, completely changing the dynamic of the relationship between these two characters. It also shows Rumple's darker side after his more ambiguously neutral persona in her teens, and probably-good guy persona in her childhood (if it was even the same Fair at all).

Basically, they've both changed quite a bit, and I think it works much better to dedicate the time to showing that in the story. Definitely approve!

Reply Ultimate the Hedgehog, March 8th, 2016, 5:57 pm

Well, there's definitely a disdain towards teenaged girls projected onto Chris.



But that's not bad in this case. There has to be some reality subtext.

Reply Arlenti, March 8th, 2016, 8:29 pm

I think I'm finnaly starting to feel sympathy for Chris, only because of her development. She was iritating me in the begining being naive, somewhat whiny teenager stereotype, but now she is independent, strong and mature mother. (that page prooved that, at least to me.)
Before she had so many opurtunites to shine on her own but she blew them off. All good she did was rising from being a fraud to actual mage (and she still can't make gold).

As for Fair. She was quite cruel with her reaction to his old face. It was not his fault that she expected someone else. The fact that he helped her at all may be actually mercy not some kind of vile goal.
All magic systems have some kind of cost, and i think for Fairs too. He propably had to pay with his own "time" for making all this gold. So how is he wrong for takin payment for that? (Ye, I know it was kind of a "weird" payment) I think that when he accepted to make this third bath of gold he was still acctualy young (like in his twentys), and he got old over night (it was hell a lot of gold!) And i think he did try to explain it to her, but she interupted him here: http://rumplestiltskin.smackjeeves.com/comics/2071150/chapter-7-page-56/
Again its not his fault that she didn't allow him to say anything. Of course he taken it a little too far this few times and he have his flaws but that just makes him more "human".

As for the king. I don't see him being wrong. Yes, he is kind of cruel, but imagine what kind of upbringing he could have. He propably doesn't know any better. Besides he is a KING, he have to be cold and calculating it makes him more real. I acctualy think that he was suspecting that Chris didn't made the gold herself and he wanted to test her, or maybe even give her a sign that he doesn't want her to make a fool of him (Or he is actualy that Fair and he is still messing with her for fun, after all changing face may be possible :D). It's not his fault that she chose to lie to him. When you lie one time you can still admit you did that. When you lie second and third time and so on you acctualy start to believe that its for the better, when its not.

That is another reason why I don't root for "Chris not having a choice" and I don't actually like teenage Chris, because she is so full of her own bs, that she just can't addmit and say that she may be wrong. Yes she had a terrible childhood, but also a loving (maybe a little overprotective) brother, and did she even though about him when she run away? Not likely.

As for king getting rid off of her brother I actually think that he is in dungeon, turned into one of this hooded guards, or maybe he was just sent home and convinced that his sister will be adored queen with secure future (maybe even brainwashed). Chris acctually had a choice, being rude king pillow, or wait, work hard in her magic to make a name of her own and meet her true love.
So it was her own to choose fame over the other kind of happines.

I think no one is right and no one is wrong in this story, all of them have their reasons to act this way or the other, just like people in real live. That makes them believable, at least for me. And that way story is more complex.

I think that she will actually give Gabe to Fair in some weird spin of events that will turn her world upside down, and put them all in danger. Or she could just hunt Fair forever in vengence and become actual villain. Either way I know Holy will spin even better gold piece of a story :D (And I will bite my nails and despair about how far I was from the actual plot.)

Sorry... big wall of text, but I adore that comic on so many levels <3

Reply Ultimate the Hedgehog, March 8th, 2016, 10:16 pm

@Arlenti: While her reacting to his ugly face was shallow, it doesn't make the Fair better. He was just more "interesting".

Chris was a bratty teenager stereotype, but the thing is... THAT'S REAL. She was young and had spent most of her life pretty sheltered and just fantasizing about something better. You can't tell me that makes her bad. Yes, a wake up call was in order, but what happened to her was just cruel. The Fair knows this but thinks she "deserves" it. And he took advantage of her situation. There is no other way to look at it.

I know it's fiction, and that makes it easier to side with the mysterious masked man who is good with smooth talk, but that doesn't make it RIGHT.

Reply natuko_hom, March 8th, 2016, 10:43 pm

@Ultimate the Hedgehog: It wasn't even really shallow. This whole time she hoped that the fair was the one she knew. Sure he wasn't responsible for that, but she can't help the way she felt. Not to mention there's only one way he could've gotten that mask, and she knows about it.

Reply Ultimate the Hedgehog, March 9th, 2016, 2:32 am

@natuko_hom: I know that. But I understand why some would see it as shallow. Plus, she was sorta shallow to begin with. That said, she was a teenage girl.

When I see girls that are so caught up in fantasies like Twighlight or many others, I roll my eyes. I think it's kinda foolish. But I don't wish upon them to enter abusive relationships. I don't wish upon them that it comes back to bite them so hard that they lose their kids.

That'd be like... well like me wishing upon all the Fair's fangirls to be tormented by a guy like him.

Reply Mythee, March 9th, 2016, 9:48 am

Well said.

Reply Arlenti, March 9th, 2016, 4:05 am

@Ultimate the Hedgehog: I don't think I said Chris is BAD, just that she have flaws. Sorry if that sounded otherwise. Yes, you'r right, stereotype can be reality, after all stereotypes had to begin somewhere.
I just personaly don't feel sympathy for her teenage persona (maybe the fact that it reminds me of my own past mistakes iritates me so much). There are as many personalites as people on earth. Everyone is driven and shaped by something and that was what I wanted to say. Chris was hit hard by reality and she changed and its good.

Again you'r right that no parent (if they'r not abusive) deserves to have their child reaped from them. Sadly tho she herself agreed to that payment. Though I actually think that the real payment wasn't him takin Gabe in the beggining but that? http://rumplestiltskin.smackjeeves.com/comics/2070354/chapter-7-page-36/ whatever that was (well Holy did left it kinda for speculation.) and he may be messing with her now. Which I can't deny is freakin creepy (just like the payments were) and if true then he deserves slap on a face at least.
And I said all that makes him more "human", but that is not equal to good or better.

You'r also right that they don't deserve to be in abusive relationships and I did went too far saing that "I don't see king being wrong". He is wrong in relationship aspects (Although we don't really see all of their interactions over the years.) and propably have no idea how to treat another human being. Again, his parents propably were in the same kind of relationship. As for being a king he is doin everything to keep his kingdom strong. (I'm not fond of monarchy systems but well in fantasy worlds those work.)

Chris after the last bath of gold should just run as far as she could as soon as the door opened, but I realize that by that time her brother was arleady gone and she had nowhere to return too and she had to stay with king out of fear propably. She acctualy had a real choice in that aspect before she left home.

Again its just my view of this story and characters, everyone else may think different and I'm propably wrong about some aspects. And its better this way. If everyone was right about everything Holy wouldn't be able to surprise us ;)

Reply Ultimate the Hedgehog, March 9th, 2016, 10:34 pm

@Arlenti: I know she offered him up. But again, she was still a teenager and backed into a corner. The kid wasn't even conceived yet.
That's like saying that teenage girl who had an abortion years ago doesn't deserve to have kids as an adult.

And all these things about the Fair aren't what make him human. Chris, she's human. She probably was the most human of the main cast (maybe tied with Toby). The Fair shows so many signs of a sociopath. We know that on some level he cares about Chris, but he treats her like dirt because he thinks she's a terrible person just for being... well, a person.
Same with the King, who also shows signs of a sociopath. But we don't see as much of him as the other two main characters.

And don't say she actually had much of a choice to run away after getting tangled up in all this. The moment she peaked the interest of the King, she was trapped. Period. After the last batch of gold, she demanded the King send her home. And he made a very clear threat (he had been making threats the whole time) to make sure she stayed.
If she made a break for it, you think his guards couldn't stop her?

Chris is flawed, but it's not "balanced" by the Fair's or the King's. She was just a naive kid, they are cunning, manipulative bastards. She never threatened anyone's life (before now). She didn't have ill intent. She didn't want to hurt anyone. She just wanted a chance to be someone who could make a positive influence. And as naive and selfish as she was (or maybe still is), that does not compare to being the kind of guy who kills people who get in his way and the kind of guy that takes advantage of a young girl's poor predicament. I mean, seriously, watching them both play her like a fiddle was just painful to see. Yeah, she basically put herself there, but as people who know better, wasn't it their job to do the right thing?

They tell kids not to talk to strangers. They tell girls to not wear provocative clothes. They tell African Americans to not wear hoodies or play with toy guns out in the open.
And honestly, that's good advice because there are crazy people out there, looking to hurt and take advantage of others.
But are we really gonna demonize the dumb kid who got in that truck? That girl who got molested? The black kids that get shot by racist cops?

I'm glad that this comic shows that stupid decisions lead to bad situations. Because that's how the world works.
But I'm sick of all the people saying the Fair (or the King) is in the right. That Chris is just as bad as they are. And so forth. Nonsense.

Reply Arlenti, March 10th, 2016, 1:41 am

@Ultimate the Hedgehog: I can understand all you say and as I wrote before: I agree with most you just said. (Sorry, I think you over reacted? no one here is demonizing abuse victims! That would be sick :/)
All I wanted is to point on how good Holy is at making those characters intriguing. How she makes me think about what they will do next. (I have problem sometimes with speakin my mind, my fault) I read far too many books and comics, and seen movies where villains were just bunch of fools that didn't made too much sense.

Again I'm not saing Chris is bad/evil person, only that she have flaws and the fact she is not idealised acctually makes her a good main character. Her beaing main character/heroine of this story doesn't oblige me to like her tho. I feeled far more sympathy for her brother actually.

Yes, I like the fact that dark characters exist because they are the trigger for most fantasy stories and I like to think what drives them to be how they are. That doesn't mean I agree with them or feel overflowing sympathy for them. I don't like Sauron (book one) for exemple, but that doesn't stop me from thinkin why would he go so far in his doings and cruelty. That is the same "trigger" that makes people love detective stories. That sence of mystery. (Cruelty or being straight sociopath are human traits thats why I mean't all it makes him human/realistic I would say the same thing if he was god/elf/dwarf or talking animal. We create those kind of outworldly characters in our minds and we still give them human traits)

And you are right kind sir: Fair IS a douche... Personaly I would propably slap him with his own mask for all I care. He is just intriguing.

Peace :)

Reply Ultimate the Hedgehog, March 10th, 2016, 4:24 am

@Arlenti:
Oh, H0ly is a good writer.

Honestly, with the way he is written so convincingly, it would be hard for me to believe there is really any depth to the Fair, and that he's really just one of those guys who thinks he's deep just because he... thinks.
I know a couple people like that. One of them, unlike the Fair, is actually really dumb but still acts that way. So it's actually more infuriating.

That said, there are still the subtle (and no so subtle) clues that even if he's pretty much a predator, there is something complex about him. For better or worse, we will get a better understanding soon.
Or at the very least, get a better understanding of what the H0ly is trying to say here and how it all ties together.

And I look forward to seeing whatever layers unravel in this story.

That said, I'm not looking for "justification" for the Fair. I don't think H0ly would do that, though, because so far in most of the works I've seen, she doesn't provide justification for anything. Reasoning, sympathy? Maybe. I don't want to see this at the end for everyone to be like "See, he was right!" or "See, he had some other redeeming qualities so that makes his irredeemable qualities okay."
No, that is... probably one of the biggest mistakes you can make when trying to make a complex character.

But I'm certain H0ly knows what she's doing and is surely better at writing than me.

I'm just hoping the readers... get a wake up call.
Though, I am sorry to have judged you.

Reply Broktus (Guest), March 14th, 2016, 11:51 am

@Arlenti: This is just a side note, but- is English your first language? I ask because your poor grammar is messing up the effect of all the deep observations you're saying.

Reply Arlenti, March 15th, 2016, 12:39 am

@Broktus: It's not my first language, so sorry for the "mess"

Reply Broktus (Guest), March 16th, 2016, 11:39 pm

@Arlenti: That's alright, I was just wondering.

Reply Oh plum (Guest), March 8th, 2016, 9:24 pm

At the rate this heated talk is going, I'm gonna say that Chris is gonna lose Gabe.

Reply Lunachick17, March 9th, 2016, 11:51 am

lol why spell when you can yell :)

Reply Guest, March 10th, 2016, 12:10 am

I think part of the confusion that happens in the comments here is an obsession over placing blame, that someone has to be at "fault" for the situation that Chris is in. This concept of "fault" is very contrived, since it assumes that someone is fully "responsible" for the result, which just isn't the case here. It makes more sense to look in terms of cause-and-effect and motives.

Chris as a kid wanted to "make a difference" in the world, and she probably was romanticizing about becoming queen. So she went to the palace and exaggerated(dumb choice) about her magical abilities.
The result of this was being put in a situation where she was expected to perform magic she wasn't able to do.
The Fair, knowing she was desperate, saw an opportunity to take advantage of her. He slowly gained her trust by agreeing to do magic for meaningless "favors."
Chris thought things were going well (as kids will often do). A "childhood friend" was helping her gain the favor of the king. So she (dumb idea) kept up the farce.
Then the Fair sprung his trap.

It's clear that Chris was a dumb teenager. And it's clear that the Fair was a shark.
If Chris was a little less naive, she wouldn't have fallen into the trap. She's learned a lot since then, and now she's doing the best she can to protect her child.
The Fair, however, deliberately took advantage of a naive teenager, and he's enjoying emotionally abusing her as well.

But if you're focused on who is to "blame" for this mess, you won't see what's actually happening but rather fall into the wordplay the Fair is using to hurt Chris.

Reply Ultimate the Hedgehog, March 10th, 2016, 4:24 am

@Guest: Exactly.

Reply Nice-ness, March 11th, 2016, 5:14 pm

H0ly, you are doing something right when you can provoke such large moral debates out of people.

My thoughts on it are that it is clearly Chris' fault she's here in the first place but the main problem here isn't blame.
And no, that doesn't mean both sides are wrong or both sides are right. Fair is wrong.
But Chris did make some... uh, not to smart decisions.

I still love all the characters. I can't wait till it all unravels!

Reply Guest, March 13th, 2016, 6:44 pm

@Nice-ness: Exactly

Reply chaos-of-vinnie, March 13th, 2016, 5:17 pm

Loool this guy doesn't let up, his sass is over 9000.

I would be interested to hear what you have to say about it at the end also and if you are going to be working on anything else after :)

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