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Chapter 9 Page 10

June 18th, 2015, 5:15 pm

Average Rating: 5.00
It's weird seeing Chris and Masked Guy essentially having the same conversation as the comments section xD
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Author's Comments:

Reply H0lyhandgrenade, June 18th, 2015, 5:15 pm

Oh, I meant to say last page. Thankyou Redfaerie for the review =)

See y'all soon.

Reply Advertisement, December 15th, 2017, 3:41 pm

User's Comments:

Reply FireStorm55 (Guest), June 18th, 2015, 5:55 pm

Chris, you're being way too rude than what is currently called for. At least try negociating before deciding to go on the war path.

Rumplstiltskin, if it really is your intenion to demand "it" for this "chance" then I don't care what intentions you started with and I give up on you.

Reply The_Time_Hunter, June 18th, 2015, 5:59 pm

@FireStorm55:
Agreed.

Reply w0lfh4wk, June 18th, 2015, 6:56 pm

I personally love the sync of Chris/Rumpy conversation - and comments section..... to a degree - Rumpy's side is a bit too big. Chris could do with more people in her corner. She's not exactly surrounded by friends y'know.

Reply Chelvo, June 19th, 2015, 12:21 pm

@w0lfh4wk: That might have something to do with "Actions weigh more than words" to some.
Rumpy may be an asshole, but he kept his word. Chris... She is not even trying to give him an alternative and behaves like she owes him nothing.

Reply w0lfh4wk, June 21st, 2015, 1:43 pm

@Chelvo: He basically coerced her into sex, she "consented" but it was forced consent because she felt she had literally no other choice - which in another term is rape. Asshole yes - also a rapist - so whether he has kept his word or not those actions are pretty indefensible. Yes - Chris was making mistakes back then - she was a teenager - teenagers make mistakes. It was a mistake to go to the palace, but once she got there it was a series of events that basically trapped her there with Rumple as her only option out. It's darn naive to believe that she could have just bribed the guard and gotten out at the first point - since she'd have been taken to the king anyway, even though she did make the mistake of asking to be taken to him. From that point on - things went out of her control pretty fast.

Rumple's actions, rape on top of dealing in children, don't exactly put him "in the right".

Reply MilkyTea, June 18th, 2015, 7:21 pm

Now even the characters read the comment section... XD

Reply The_mad_one, June 18th, 2015, 7:59 pm

I personally wouldn't call dealing in children "nothing but good".

Reply Harangue (Guest), August 26th, 2015, 11:02 pm

@The_mad_one: He saved her life three times. He gave her an out. He came back even when he said he wouldn't help her any longer because she was too stupid to know when enough was enough. And now she's blaming him for all of her misfortune.

The delusion is thick with her. She doesn't want to style herself as being inept, no, how could she have been wrong? It was everyone ELSE who was conspiring against her! Her brother wanting her to live as a village girl, Rumple "taking advantage" of her, the Prince being a giant back of dicks.

We don't even KNOW what he wants the kid for. All we have to go on is the Fair turn the children into more Fair, whatever that even entails. So far it doesn't seem that being a Fair is a particularly bad thing, for one you got the whole teleportation and spinning gold from straw going for you.

We know literally nothing about his character or motives, but we know EVERYTHING about Chris. Her selfishness is what got her here. It's nobody else's fault.

Reply qazox, June 18th, 2015, 9:59 pm

Even in the original story, Rumple gets screwed over trying to enforce a verbal contact; though to be fair Chris was technically a minor, and therefore couldn't enter said contract....but we can't use modern contract law precedent to judge Late Medieval/Early Renaissance situations... so long story short: Chris better turn over Gabe ASAP

Reply Ultimate the Hedgehog, June 19th, 2015, 4:31 am

Oh Holy Hell. Y'know what really bugs me? It's not the Chris bashing. Because I can get that. She was young and stupid.
It's the Rumple-defending. You know who is worse than the people dumb enough to think the world is safe? The people that make it unsafe.
The King. The Fair. They are PART of the problem. So stop being defensive of those who are part of the problem. It's like bashing on a girl for getting raped just because she wears skimpy clothing.

Reply Nyzer (Guest), June 19th, 2015, 5:14 pm

@Ultimate the Hedgehog: Are you seriously comparing Chris's situation to being raped? Wow. They're not even remotely comparable.

First off: Chris has been trying to take advantage of BOTH of those two ever since they first appeared in her (adult) life.

Second off: The situation with the King? Chris is the one who lied and cheated her way in to take advantage of his position, and it's actually very heavily implied that he's fully aware of that, if not the exact circumstances. He only threatened her after she tried to simply walk away from the situation after digging herself in too deep, which is actually pretty mild considering the sheer amount of crap he's allowed her to get away with otherwise, as well as the fact that he seems to have treated her pretty well after she finally buckled down and accepted the position SHE PUT HERSELF IN.

Third: It's not as if the Fair set this whole scenario up. Chris took advantage of his abilities twice over while also digging herself in deeper at every opportunity. The Fair made it perfectly clear that he wasn't interested in helping her anymore (after two sessions of being insulted by her) and even then she wouldn't just admit the truth to the King or even try to escape while she had the chance.

Fourth: Rumple and the King's actions are far more defendable because both of them easily accept and admit the costs of their actions. Chris on the other hand does everything she can to worm out of them. Look at this very page: she implies that the Fair might want to get in her pants (he hasn't shown any real indication of this) and, in the same breath, REFUSES THIS OPTION.
I guess the idea of giving her body to someone ONE TIME, as a result of backing out of a deal SHE made, is too much. I mean, it's only her firstborn, beloved son. ¬_¬

As someone else has put it: "The main problem I have with Chris is that she doesn't even try to solve the problem."
This is literally her defining character trait.
At least the other two have UNDERSTANDABLE, even somewhat SENSIBLE, personalities.

Reply Ultimate the Hedgehog, June 19th, 2015, 5:49 pm

@Nyzer: I was trying to come up with a less extreme example than rape but my point still stands.
When a kid runs away from home despite not knowing how to take care of himself... things won't end up well for him. And while you can say he brought it upon himself... you can't defend those who would wrong that kid.

The world is dangerous. The world is filled with people that will put you through shit for their own reasons (sympathetic or not). Does that mean it's okay just because it's normal? No! Not at all.

What about all those kids that got kidnapped and/or molested because they weren't listening to their parents about stranger danger? What about all those kids that got robbed/jumped because they were trusting the wrong people? What about those people that end up stalked or sexually assaulted just because they were "asking for it"? What about those people with a drug problem that isn't helped by the fact that there are people out there that keep supplying them with drugs?

It's all a cycle. There are two sides to everything. And sometimes both sides are in the wrong.
Understandable or not, wrong is just wrong. Period.
Taking advantage of a young girls weakness and making her promise her first born child to you? That is fucked up. The Fair even knows it. He knows he's not a good person (he even said so before). He just likes to screw with Chris and make her realize that she brought this on herself.
All I really care about right now is the kid being able to stay with his mother that loves him. Doesn't matter what she did in the past. He doesn't deserve to be kidnapped by some weirdo.

Reply FireStorm55 (Guest), June 19th, 2015, 8:25 pm

@Ultimate the Hedgehog: You say "there are always two sides to everything" but you're pretty much dismissing the possibility that Rumplestiltskin has more than one side. That there's NO WAY that he had or has any good intentions towards Chris or has any good intentions towards her kid.

You don't /know/ that. He COULD genuinely care about Chris dispite being creepy about it, and genuinly have been /trying/ to help her, genuinly worried about what would happen to her if she didn't have gold... but be utterly sick of her trying to squeeze him for everything she can get out of him while simultaniously treating him like shit.

And MAYBE Gabe would even LIKE being with the Fair. If the fair is even actually considering going through and taking him. Just because the Fair made a deal for Gabe doesn't automatically mean he intends to do anything awful to the kid.

Reply Nyzer (Guest), June 22nd, 2015, 10:48 pm

@FireStorm55: Basically this. It's not implied that Rumple has EVIL intentions, just selfish ones. There's no reason to think he's going to actually abuse the kid.
And as for the "what about the" situations? NONE of those are any more comparable to Chris's situation than rape (and some of them ARE rape... give me a break already).
Chris wasn't some "kid"; she was an older teenager, possibly even a legal adult. She's only a "victim" of her own actions, it's not as if others tracked her down and threw her into a van or something - she did everything she could to get involved in an increasingly risky situation, and when that wasn't enough she lied about her abilities just to dig in even deeper!
This isn't some modern society which punishes crimes fairly softly, so there's no expectation that trying to fuck the King over (which is exactly what she was attempting) should just end with a slap on the wrist.
This isn't a modern society which protects people from imbalanced deals, so there's no expectation that making a deal with magical creatures that society strongly warns you not to make deals with is something you should treat lightly or expect to yell your way out of!

This is like asking if some teenage idiot playing with a loaded gun by pointing it at their own head repeatedly "deserves" to shoot themselves for it. Unfortunately, the blunt answer there is yes. If your survival instincts are THAT terrible, you're the one at fault for it. Ideally it shouldn't happen but anyone with half a brain will tell you not to fucking do it, and if you can't be arsed to listen, well, that's on YOU.

Reply xForeverRedx, June 19th, 2015, 7:46 am

I think the reason why she's being so, as some said 'rude' is because she's a mother, trying to protect her child. Think of how most mothers would react if someone threatened to take their child. Don't you think they would be like this?

Reply FireStorm55 (Guest), June 19th, 2015, 11:52 am

@xForeverRedx: It's annoying because she jumped strait to being rude. It doesn't bother me because "she's hurting poor Rumpy's feelings!", it bothers me because it's really bad negociation tactics.
If she had tried reasoning with him first and he had a "Only acceptable payment method is your body!" 'tude then I would have been all for her being in war-path mode.

Reply Elizabethxo, June 19th, 2015, 12:08 pm

As much as I don't like rumpy, and as much as I hate this situation . . .
he did get her out of a lot of shitty moments and she should at least give him props for that.
Even though none of it went as planned, that's kind of what you get when you fool around.
not really kind of anymore . . . she just got it when she fooled around.

Reply Chelvo, June 19th, 2015, 12:19 pm

The main problem I have with Chris is that she doesn't even try to solve the problem.
She could try to haggle or such stuff... Nay, she just goes "I promptly decide he is a bad guy and I don't have to keep promises with bad guys at all"-mode. And Rumpy is by far no Saint, he never pretended to be one, but the contract is actually pretty valid in my book, therefore, even if I'm considering him unpleasant, I am on his side.

Reply penna (Guest), June 19th, 2015, 10:26 pm

Geez, Chris is full of it.

Reply avian-reader, June 20th, 2015, 5:39 pm

Y'know guys, it may have only been a month or two for us since the last time they met, but it's been several years for Chris.

On that sort of timescale, your brain condenses memories into flat narratives and characters. Considering that they parted on a really negative note, is it that surprising that time has turned her image of him into a total villain who took advantage of her when she was at her weakest?

If that sort of character wanted to calmly discuss taking away your child, would you really take the time to be charming and diplomatic with them?

As an aside, even if she did take that approach, we all know he'd see through it easily.

Reply MilkyTea, June 22nd, 2015, 8:12 am

It's getting kind of disturbing how many people seem to not only think that one should be legally/contractually obligated to get raped and sell their kids, but that it's normal... even through coercion and set-ups...

Reply Nyzer (Guest), June 22nd, 2015, 10:37 pm

@MilkyTea: Again, where did "rape" come from? What's with this?
And it's hard to say that Rumple is simply "taking advantage of her" when he did her two favors for next to nothing in return, got berated by her for most of the time spent in her company, and then outright told her that he wasn't interested in helping her anymore. He never had to help her in the first place, and he never had to help her after she wasted all her chances either!
The ONLY reason he saved her is because she could provide him with something he wanted - something Fairs were KNOWN to want, which is apparently their method of reproduction to boot!
On top of that he is NOW giving her a NEW opportunity to trade her way out of THIS deal! I mean... hello?
It's Chris who recklessly digs herself in deeper at every opportunity. Rumple isn't setting this shit up in this story.
It's like asking how many times you should bail someone out of jail when they just... keep... going... back, don't give you anything worthwhile in return, and repeatedly insult you EVEN AS YOU GET THEM OUT. If, after you finally reach the end of your rope with them, you say the only way you'll bail them out yet again is if they give you their house... and they actually accept... is it then wrong to expect that you actually get that house afterwards? You're basically saying "it's wrong because it would make them homeless" when they're the ones who got themselves into the situation! They're the ones who agreed to trade it!
Yes, I know there's a difference with kids involved, but A) we don't know or have any reason to expect that Chris's son will be abused, B) we don't know the kid's perspective on the idea either, C) It's mildly implied that he's already spending time with Rumple (the disappearances at the same age Chris was when her friendship with a Fair started), and D) the kid isn't happy with his current life anyway!

And all of this is completely ignoring the fact that she accused him of just wanting to fuck her, but SHUTTING THAT IDEA DOWN because somehow her own body is more important to her than losing her son as a result of HER OWN ACTIONS? Please. How can you even respect someone like that? I know it's not exactly a fun responsibility to look forward to, but it would be ten minutes of lying there and then done, kid's safety forever assured. But no, MUH DIGNITY.

Reply avian-reader, June 23rd, 2015, 12:08 am

@Nyzer: I'm not sure you could describe coming back years later for a bootie call as "bailing her out".

He never needed to start this, never needed to keep coming back, doesn't need to be here now. He has been choosing this path just as much as Chris has. Chris has been stupid, but what's his excuse?

If he'd kept his nose out and left her alone, what would have happened? I reckon they'd have given her a slap on the wrist and sent her home to Toby. Story over, no massive shitstorms, the end. His getting involved so he can claim some nookie actually made things worse.

Reply Nyzer (Guest), June 23rd, 2015, 11:47 am

@avian-reader: Well, for one, the accusation of being there for a booty call is... entirely hers. The only physical contact HE ever asked for was a hug. The kiss was HER idea - he merely accepted it. And it's very heavily implied that he only wanted the hug out of loneliness, not... perversion.
As he put it after the hug: "If I was wanting to do anything to you I'd have been able to just ask for it. After all, what choice would you have had."

As for why he started it: who knows? His motivations haven't been made clear yet. It's hinted that he's still the same Fair that she befriended as a child, despite the changed face. For all we know, he just wanted a companion - a friend. Definitely not a booty call. The story would be entirely different if he'd been using her for sex from the get-go.

And... saying he chose this path? If Chris had done basically anything other than what she did after she got the gold the first time, things would have gone completely differently. Even if she'd gone and met the King, but had told him the truth, or at least any part of the truth, or even a LIE - but still NOT told him that she could personally make gold at any time?
Hell, she could just have said that she teleported or levitated the stack into the cell, instead of being able to just CREATE IT FROM SCRATCH, and that would have been that! Game over, plot done.

She didn't even need to bullshit the King at that point. She could have said "apparently I have a Fair interested in me" and probably gotten a life in the castle at least out of sheer curiosity. Or she could have returned home and worked with the Fair or gotten some training or... like... anything else.

Also, if her brother hadn't chosen to storm the castle, attacking guards all over the place, he wouldn't have gotten killed, driving Chris to desperation.

Unless Rumple can plant thoughts in people's heads, there's no way he "chose this path".

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's impossible within the story. It would make him a pretty great villain if it were the case, if his initial kindness and mild requests were just an act. But so far we've been shown no signs that it's possible, let alone that it's even what happened. All we can go with is what's been shown in the story.

And what's been shown is that he helped her out of her own fucked up situation twice, getting insulted and berated throughout both experiences, then decided he was done helping her, until a) her brother died, and b) she begged him and agreed to give him something that seems to be very important to Fairs in general.

And you can try to argue that he should have saved her brother... but it's also implied that if he attempted to fight humans that it would end badly. He flat out tells her that humans can kill Fairs relatively easy.

Reply letta (Guest), June 23rd, 2015, 7:19 pm

@Nyzer: anyone could plant thoughts on other people's heads and make them think they had thought it themselves, you don't need magic for that. It's called manipulation.

If it's true the fair had been stalking Chris for some time before showing himself before her, he probably had already some knowledge about how she would react. He could have planned how to manage things to get what he wanted. I personally am not sure about this, but it's a possibility.

However, I disagree completely with this part of your comment:

"And all of this is completely ignoring the fact that she accused him of just wanting to fuck her, but SHUTTING THAT IDEA DOWN because somehow her own body is more important to her than losing her son as a result of HER OWN ACTIONS? Please. How can you even respect someone like that? I know it's not exactly a fun responsibility to look forward to, but it would be ten minutes of lying there and then done, kid's safety forever assured. But no, MUH DIGNITY."

If Chris "laid there for ten minutes" as you put it, would that guarantee that the Fair wouldn't take his son afterwards? No, not at all. The Fair could take advantage of her and then take her son just because, and she wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

What guarantees does Chris have that even if she proves the Fair she has changed, the Fair will actually back out of their deal? Or that Chris will be able to back out and disappear to have a new life, now that she's the Queen and not just some random peasant? The chances of it happening are quite slim.

So, given an sketchy opportunity with an sketchy guy, "MUH DIGNITY" wins all along.

Reply Nyzer (Guest), June 24th, 2015, 4:22 pm

@letta: "what guarantee is there that the Fair wouldn't just take the kid afterwards?"

...

You make the accusation that he set these events up, but that he's not going to stick to deals and just end up taking the kid anyway? Why did he even make the deal in the first place, then? He could have given Chris the third set of gold, said nothing, disappeared for ten years, returned to take the kid in the dead of night, and that would have been that. All he's done is put her on her guard...

And yeah, dude, I know what manipulation is. But it's pretty damned difficult to manipulate people when YOU'VE NEVER EVEN INTERACTED WITH THEM.

He MIGHT have been able to predict that Chris would get herself in too deep with the King, but - again - if this was his plan, it could have collapsed like a house of cards at even the SLIGHTEST deviation from what actually happened.

In other words it's a godawful plan.

Not to mention unnecessary! As the Fair himself says during his first meeting with Teen/Adult Chris, he could have made her give him anything he wanted right then and there. If he had that power from the get-go, why would he set up a plan that hinges on multiple people doing the dumbest shit possible and on the King not pushing Chris on the gold spinning? I mean, hell, the King outright tries to get Chris to admit to the real trick behind the gold on more than one occasion.

It's like relying on the lottery for income while you know your asshole roommate keeps stealing your lotto tickets every chance he gets.

It's a dumb, awful, terrible, impossible plan.

Did he take advantage when things hit rock bottom? Yeah, he did. But unless he can manipulate minds with magic while remaining hidden, there's absolutely no chance that he engineered those events. None.

Reply letta (Guest), June 24th, 2015, 8:24 pm

@Nyzer:

I don't know, maybe he can't

"And yeah, dude, I know what manipulation is. But it's pretty damned difficult to manipulate people when YOU'VE NEVER EVEN INTERACTED WITH THEM."

Actually, that's not true. Knowing a person does manipulating them easier, but it's quite easy to manipulate a complete stranger if you know how to do it. Not everyone has the skills for that, though.

Like I said in my previous comment, I think it's unlikely the Fair orchestrated all this, but taking advantage of a naïve and desperate teen doesn't make his actions look much better. He admits it, but he doesn't seem remorseful at all.

The point I disagreed with it's that is somehow OK for Chris to have sex under coerced conditions and if she refuses then she's the most horrible person ever, *even if the fair keeps his part of the deal*. I find this kind of thinking too simplistic and blaming, and very creepy too, to be honest. Unless you would agree to being used for sex in exchange for favours in real life, and consider that acceptable.


We don't know yet how exactly is Chris supposed to prove she has changed. H0ly has also hinted there is other reason why she's upset, so I will leave it at that until we have more information.

Reply letta (Guest), June 24th, 2015, 8:34 pm

@letta: Sorry for the cut phrase, it's a mistake I can't edit. I was writing some parts while deleting others.

Reply Nyzer (Guest), June 24th, 2015, 8:56 pm

@letta: "Knowing a person does manipulating them easier, but it's quite easy to manipulate a complete stranger if you know how to do it."

And yeah, but I was talking about the possibility of Rumple being a chessmaster who orchestrated Chris going to the castle, her brother following her and ending up dead, and the King giving her a veiled threat because she dug herself in too deep for him to simply let her go. THAT is flatly impossible, especially when he never interacted with half of them at any point in the story.

Could he have merely subtly pushed Chris towards doubling down on her plan? Yeah, maybe. I'd still argue that it's unlikely, as his berating of her on the second visit could have very easily made her doubt herself - especially with his statement about being done with her.
Manipulating someone into a specific option isn't typically done by presenting them with multiple different options and suggesting that they should pick one of the ones you DON'T want them to take, because it would be less risky to their LIFE to pick one of those others.

"The point I disagreed with it's that is somehow OK for Chris to have sex under coerced conditions and if she refuses then she's the most horrible person ever, *even if the fair keeps his part of the deal*. I find this kind of thinking too simplistic and blaming, and very creepy too, to be honest. Unless you would agree to being used for sex in exchange for favours in real life, and consider that acceptable."

But that IS too simplistic.

The point of the situation is that Chris is, at least, LARGELY responsible for it. Obviously the result isn't what she was going for, but her actions are what led to it.
And she was lying to the king in an effort to marry him under false pretenses for power by abusing Rumple's magic. I mean, it's not explicitly stated, but I'd have to imagine that that's the sort of thing that might be pretty damn illegal in that society. And both the king AND Rumple tried to offer her options to get out of it!

She was doing illegal shit for her own selfish gain and managed to avoid a LOT of the consequences for it - largely thanks to Rumple's help. I don't know about you, but if it were me, and the punishment for my illegal actions was to either lose my life or have to give up my child to someone I don't trust, and someone gave me the option to get out of all of that just by giving up my body for one night (not that Rumple actually suggested that; she only accused him of it), that's sure as hell the option I'd take.
In a heartbeat.
I'd rather give up my ass to some creepy dude for one night than to give up my child to them permanently... or, y'know, to die.

What I don't like is the fact that she refuses this option that's actually really fucking mild compared to all the other potential consequences she's faced for her role in all this shit.
To me, it comes across that she finds her dignity to be more important than her son's safety.
When his safety is ONLY in question because of her own actions - her own choices - her own selfishness.

"taking advantage of a naive and desperate teen doesn't make his actions look much better. He admits it, but he doesn't seem remorseful at all."

But who took advantage of whom first? Chris, twice over, acted as though she just expected him to show up and bail her ass out of her own illegal smoke-and-mirrors game. Obviously Rumple ended up taking a much larger advantage over her, but as the king himself put it: all she was doing was wasting patience and good will.
Rumple didn't WANT to keep making gold for her, okay? She demanded it. And even after he flat out told her he was done, and would never appear again, she expected him to show up at the snap of her fingers and bail her out.
It'd be like going to a drug dealer to beg for money on a regular basis. At some point, you're gonna have to do some unsavory shit for them in return. If you manage to AVOID the price the first time or two, you should count your blessings and WALK. AWAY.

"H0ly has also hinted there is other reason why she's upset, so I will leave it at that until we have more information."

Oh, absolutely. If there's more to this story - something that fleshes out Chris' ridiculous mulishness, and makes it understandable, then the situation's entirely different.

It's just that we can only comment on what's been presented so far, y'know?

" Sorry for the cut phrase, it's a mistake I can't edit. I was writing some parts while deleting others."

Heh. I've been there. No worries.

Reply Kroz1776 (Guest), June 22nd, 2015, 8:13 am

Anyone think it. Could be the fair's son?

Reply chaos-of-vinnie, June 25th, 2015, 11:53 am

This is tough, essentially they're both doing what they think is right and what they, in a sense, rightfully deserve, it just so happens that Rumple's 'right and what he deserves means taking Chris's kid away :S

Reply Charlotte057, August 31st, 2015, 9:40 am

Okay. So, she /does/ actually owe him her son, but he /also/ gave her a second chance to fix things and she doesn't even want to.
Sure, it was a d word move to wait all these years to claim Gabe, but that doesn't change the fact that she still owes him.

Reply RadicalTrain, April 29th, 2016, 11:19 am

Yooo, boy spun you two rooms and a mattress full of gold to get you a king for a husband.
Did nothing good, nope.

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