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Chapter 9 Page 8

June 11th, 2015, 5:01 pm

Average Rating: 5.00
Stare off. ... Well I assume so, who knows where the hell he's looking.
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Author's Comments:

Reply H0lyhandgrenade, June 11th, 2015, 5:01 pm

It's been real interesting reading people's thoughts about this whole thing :> I have my own opinions and such of course, but... Well I'm gunna save talking about this comic properly until when it's finished.

See y'all soon.

Reply Advertisement, April 23rd, 2017, 4:56 am

User's Comments:

Reply Elizabethxo, June 11th, 2015, 5:16 pm

AHHHH I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FEEL ABOUT THISSSSSSS.

Reply Visitor (Guest), June 11th, 2015, 5:24 pm

It's kind of scary seeing how many readers of this comic seem to think this jackass did nothing wrong.

Reply Sapar, June 11th, 2015, 6:22 pm

@Visitor: It just goes to show how well the villain is written when he manages to make the heroine look to be in the wrong.

Honestly, people probably don't want to blame him because he's so darn likable...in his own way, of course.

Reply The_mad_one, June 11th, 2015, 7:08 pm

@Visitor: I think it's not so much that he did nothing wrong, just that he's so clearly malicious that there's little point in stating it outright.

As a side note, he did kinda save her life. Abused the situation, but still sort of saved her as well.

Reply Literas (Guest), June 12th, 2015, 11:01 am

@Visitor: I think it's pretty clear Rumple isn't some good samaritan, but to me, a lot more of the readers seem to be on the fence regarding Christine's actions. Does she deserve her child, probably the only person dear to her in her life, being taken away for the mistakes she has made? I don't think so, but some people do evidently. It probably doesn't help that Rumple as a character is quite entertaining and in this conversation, comes across as more reasonable because he's being very logical about it ("you made the deal and now you're breaking our agreement").

Reply MilkyTea, June 11th, 2015, 6:20 pm

H0ly reads the comment!? ho gawd, watch us all be completely wrong about everything at the end of this. XDD

Reply shibagal, June 11th, 2015, 6:41 pm

Whoops, it's a standoff, place yer bets folks

Reply FireStorm55 (Guest), June 11th, 2015, 7:50 pm

He's definitely a jerk. And a creep. I'm just not sure how much of a villain he is.
He could be a sadistic villain mastermind who had his eye on getting her kid from the start... or he could just be trying to help her at as little cost to her as he can manage and is being frustrated by her utter lack of common sense or politeness.
I mean... how much does the gold-spinning cost /him/? Is it as easy as he tries to pass it off or does it drain his life force or something so he dies quicker? Or what if the reason he was late the last time was because he needed to bargain with other Fair for more gold-making juice and he was trying to haggle them down from "firstborn child for more gold-making power", and couldn't?

Reply Captain Apricot, June 11th, 2015, 11:20 pm

@FireStorm55: I could not agree with you more about him.

I always wondered what is fueling his powers? Is it children, does he eat them? Do they turn the children they take into Fair?

Reply FireStorm55 (Guest), June 11th, 2015, 11:52 pm

@Captain Apricot: I wasn't very happy with how he kind of forced a snog on Chris the third time. His pervy nature is definitely keeping him from being my favorite version of Rumplestiltskin. But I'm not ready to call him a scheming mastermind of total evil without more info on him.

I am pretty sure, unless characters are lying, the purpose behind stealing children is to make more Fairs. The question is... how often do they steal children to turn into fairs? Do the turn as many children as they can get ahold of? Or do they only turn a kid when they're dying so they can have someone to fill their mask?

Reply Redfaerie, June 11th, 2015, 9:50 pm

So I've taken to reviewing webcomics... I've taken to reviewing webcomics on my blog, and I started out with Rumplestiltskin. If anyone is interested...
http://lifelibrariesandlemontrees.tumblr.com/

Reply qazox, June 11th, 2015, 9:59 pm

You notice in quite a few fairy tales, the antagonist is mostly right in terms of 'how it would happen in real life' scenarios? Like Rumple here, who was only trying to legally collect on a contract.

Reply jjfresh, June 11th, 2015, 10:58 pm

"My eyes are up here, asshole"

Reply letta (Guest), June 13th, 2015, 2:15 pm

@jjfresh: it does look as if he were staring at her boobs in the last pannel.

Reply HAHA. (Guest), June 14th, 2015, 2:34 pm

@jjfresh and @letta (Guest): I am dying.

Reply Chelvo, June 11th, 2015, 11:41 pm

The thing is, while Rumple may have given her the Shovel, she did dig the hole she's in herself

Reply Ultimate the Hedgehog, June 12th, 2015, 3:20 am

I'm not conflicted at all. He may make some points but it's really plain and simple as this. He saw a girl in trouble, and instead of being generous, he took advantage of her situation and made her do and say things she'd regret.

You could say she's just plain stupid, but taking advantage of people's stupidity for your own gain or just for the sake of doing it... is wrong.
That's why drug dealers are criminals. They know the people they sell to are troubled people and poisoning themselves... but instead of helping them, they are cashing out on them.

Reply FireStorm55 (Guest), June 12th, 2015, 10:01 am

@Ultimate the Hedgehog: He gave her a pile of gold for one hug. Where else in the world are you going to get a /pile of gold/ for /one hug/? That practically IS free.

Chris's claiming that she could spin more gold wasn't just incredibly stupid, it was incredibly wrong. He gave her a pile of gold for one hug, and she turns around and deliberatly puts him a position where he has to make her tons more of it. Whether or not he's trying to take advantage of her, she's definitely guilty of trying to take advantage of /him/.
She's a tiny bit forgivable because she's a total idiot, but stupid choices sometimes just have dire concequences. Period. You don't always get off of having concequences for stupid choices because you're a person.

I wanna know how much spinning gold costs Rumplestiltskin, whether or not he really wants the kid or is just claiming he wants to take him to teach Chris that stupid choices can have concequence... and whether or not being a fair is actually a terrible fate to bestow on someone, before I judge whether or not he's a 100% terrible person.

Reply rainfish, June 12th, 2015, 10:46 am

@FireStorm55: The cost for the gold was the straw. Fair magic works different then others, it's one of the reasons humans in that don't feel they can trust them. What it cost him in the long haul to spin the gold was time, that's it. He was never in any danger in any way, nor did he act like he felt to be in any danger. Also, the hug and the kiss wasn't as innocent as you think. If he put a heavy price on his work from the get go then she would have been way more likely to try to bribe the guard the first time and go home. By keeping it to things like a kiss or a hug the first two times he makes sure that her life is in danger and she can't get out of it. He even waited until after her brother was killed to show up at all the third time, think about that. He waited until she had nothing and nobody left and was at her most desperate.

Reply FireStorm55 (Guest), June 12th, 2015, 11:30 am

@rainfish: That's a pretty big assumption there... that the only cost to him to magically change straw into gold is straw and time.
I mean, it /could/ be the case. But it's a VERY big assumption.

You're prejudiced in favor of the idea that he's wanted her kid from the start. Maybe the biggest reason he spun for her because he was truely worried about what would happen to her if he didn't. Maybe he truely honestly did expect her to be smarter about how she handled the situation after the first time he spun for her. Maybe using bigger magics to do things like spin straw into gold actually taxes his /life/ so he dies quicker, and the only reason he wanted her kid was because spinning that last room filled with gold made it so he'd /die/ in eight-to-nine years and he'd need a sucessor to fill his mask.

Reply rainfish, June 12th, 2015, 1:12 pm

@FireStorm55: He already said that he can do it because hes a fae. It has also been said that all things have a life force, that includes the straw. The bigger assumption would be that it cost him more then time, since being gold doesn't change the straws amount of life force, it changes its worth.

Also, there are a few times in the comic that he said he was lonely and wanted company. That company wasn't going to be her, though he seemed to enjoy stalking her and watching her undress.(he admitted to that one page that he saw her undress)

No, he didn't expect her to be smarter. He admitted a few times how stupid and naive she was, that she needed to grow up. He was very open about not thinking she was smart, even if he told her to do the smart thing and why he thought she was an idiot. How does that sound like he expected her to be smarter?

He has never said once that he wants someone to fill his mask. He's said he wants company, another fair. It would still make the kid his student, but not to replace him. Also, the fair never looked tired at any point in any way. This comic is made very well, that means if he was using his life force, it would have shown. There was no change in him that reflected the drain of life force.

When your energy is heavily drained that doesn't feel like a small headache, it makes you feel heavily weighted and light headed. Now this isn't the sort of energy that's life force. Just imagine how it would feel if life force was drained, it would be worse, and painful. His body language never reflected that sort of change in the slightest. No person is immune to pain or consequences, not even him. That is evidence pointing towards it costing only time and the straw.

Reply FireStorm55 (Guest), June 12th, 2015, 2:30 pm

@rainfish: Being able to do it because he's a Fair doesn't mean there isn't a cost to him for doing it. It just means he's got the ability do do it because he's a Fair. I really don't see how it's a bigger assumption to assume it costs him more than spinning time to transform the matter of one thing into a completely different thing. It's not like it's unpresidented that magic has some kind of huge cost to it's user.

That's another question. Assuming that this Rumplestiltskin IS Chris' childhood Rumple... why did he stop seeing her? Maybe some magic thing messed with his looks and he knew she wouldn't recognize or trust him and that's why he kept away (until he saw she was in trouble).

Chris admits that she didnt' have much of a plan when she came to show off her skills. She didnt' even seem to definitely wanted to be queen, which is what the tests were FOR. But most of his calling her stupid happened after she did the uber-stupid thing by advertizing the gold-spinning as a skill she had access to. That doesn't mean he definitely didn't think she'd have enough sense to at least try to make it clear that the gold-spinning was a one-time deal. Especially since the only source for "her skill" was a guy who fiercely creeped her out.

Didn't say he didn't, either. Students typically replace their teachers. Qustion is: is being a Fair a bad deal?

Maybe he's just good at hiding the fact that it drains him. Or maybe it's a cost that isn't necisserily evident by looking at him. Maybe if he uses ceratain magics it costs him years of his life so he drops dead quicker?

I still maintain that until we know more of his side of the story, there's a whole lot of guessing as to what his motives really are. Could spill either way.

Reply rainfish, June 12th, 2015, 5:26 pm

@FireStorm55: It's unrealistic to assume someone could hide that. Feeling light headed or dazed like that makes it hard to look in any one direction straight. It also makes it hard to move straight or stand straight. You don't think with how much straw he did each time that it would have taken a big amount each time. If it took life force to make straw in to gold then each piece would have cost something. Even if each one was an insignificant amount, it would build up. He would have been physically incapable of finishing all three times as efficiently as he did. No evidence supports your theory of it costing life force. It's also very illogical to think if you take the time to think about how much that would be. He doesn't have enough life force for your theory to work.

It already showed in the comic why he stopped seeing her. Her big brother didn't trust the fair so told her to stop seeing him, so she did. She hated to do it but it was probably something she flt she had to. Her brother was worried about her well being and rightfully so.

Reply FireStorm55 (Guest), June 12th, 2015, 6:39 pm

@rainfish: Even if feeling light-headed or dazed was a side effect of working the magic, what makes you sure that he didn't stagger around right after he finished each time? Christine fell asleep before he finished every time. He had at least a day to recover after the first time. And after the second time he second time he spent /two/ nights away.

*sigh* And I just read that part a few weeks ago, too.
Peeping tomming is very creepy and wrong. If he has been doing that and he's not just saying he does to sound creepy, which I /hope/ the case, it's a big problem I have with him.

Reply rainfish, June 12th, 2015, 7:35 pm

@FireStorm55: Chapter 3 Page 19
Look at that page. Notice something? Using a spindle is work for those with nimble fingers.

Chapter 5 Page 47
Do you see that? This is the second time he spun straw in to gold. Notice the amount? If he used his life force then he would only be able to spin so much at a time. This page does a good job on showing how much was spun that time. It's more then double his mass.

Chapter 7 Page 48-60
This shows him at the third time after spinning even more then the past two times. Do you see how he moved after doing all that spinning? No signs of exhaustion in the slightest. How would he have had the mass amount of life force to leave all that straw in to gold then deal with that situation as someone would when they aren't tired? The answer is simple, it would be physically impossible.

Also, life force can't be replenished in a day, or a few days. It's life force, not every day energy. Even that much every day energy cannot be fully replenished in that time if someone did have that unnatural amount of energy. Not life force, just normal energy.

Reply FireStorm55 (Guest), June 12th, 2015, 9:37 pm

@rainfish: ...My theory was, and is, that for big magics like turning straw into gold, he has to use his life force. My theory is that any immediate side-effects he might feel right after using his life-force to work big magics, is slightly delayed and relatively short-lived, and that the /real/ damage is that his life/span/ is being cut shorter and shorter the more he uses it.

I don't see anything in those pages that make my theory invalid.

Reply Wyld (Guest), June 12th, 2015, 10:12 pm

wow.... @FireStorm55 & rainfish:

you guys mentioned it, but you failed to notice it...the fact that SOMEONE continually dosed off every time someoooone else was spinning gold

who says he wasn't sucking out HER energy to sustain him while he did all that work?

either way, neither of these two people is innocent... they both took advantage of each other, just so happens Chris got the raw end of the deal in consequence of her poor decisions (doesn't mean she deserves the outcome, but she did get herself into this mess, she is not fully innocent even though she is not entirely to blame)

funny how peopel get so wrapped up in "good and bad" as if it's always so clear cut...real life doesn't have this luxury, yet we expect it so obsessively in stories....
This story deviates from that norm (in fact, this author seems to love pushing expectations) and it's just amazing lol

it sparks this great debate, but the best part is none of us are really wrong (none of us fully right, either)

it falls within a grey area...and that's hard for us to accept (and that's what makes it so fascinatingly brilliant!)

Reply FireStorm55 (Guest), June 12th, 2015, 10:44 pm

@Wyld: Huh. Guess I just thought it was because it was night-time and she was tired and bored.

That's an interesting theory.

Agreed.

Personally I'm not actually fully sold on this Rumplestiltskin being a "good guy". I just kind of argue for his side when I hear people saying there's no way there's any chance that he has any good intentions towards Chris. We haven't heard his side of the story yet, after all.

Reply rainfish, June 13th, 2015, 12:23 am

@Wyld: Honestly I only spoke up and debated to begin with due to how much the fair seems to have many fans rooting for him, like he's a 'good guy' or like she 'deserved it'. I don't think she's innocent, but I do think the biggest reason for her mistake was being young and naive. That doesn't make it better, but it at least makes it unintentional.

Your theory actually makes a lot of sense. As soon as he got to work she always seemed to get drained and tired. Each time before he started working on the spindle though she would be wise awake. Crap, that's a scary and convincing theory~

Reply maaari (Guest), June 13th, 2015, 2:28 am

@FireStorm55: Don't fairs just have eternal life? I don't know wether that is true or not, but that sounds logical to me ;)
(Don't mind me, I just wanted to say that)
:P

Reply FireStorm55 (Guest), June 13th, 2015, 2:34 am

@maaari: Rumplestiltskin suggested that Fairs can be killed. I have no idea where it said how long they live. Or, if they said it, whether it was true or legend.

Reply letta (Guest), June 13th, 2015, 2:25 pm

@FireStorm55: when Chris went to the market to scape to the castle, someone was selling a Fair mask. Maybe humans kill fairs and then sell whatever they think is special or magical?

Reply pikachuiscoolio (Guest), June 14th, 2015, 4:30 pm

@letta: I think it was revealed that the Fair mask and all the other items the merchant sold were fake.

Reply Ultimate the Hedgehog, June 12th, 2015, 11:12 am

@FireStorm55: Dude. She didn't plan on spinning more straw. Seriously, the Prince was making not so subtle threats to lock her up again or have her executed if she DIDN'T spin the straw. Yes, the first time he helped her, he did it for one hug. Not so bad, but it was pretty clear that he knew she'd be in the position where she needed him again. Taking her child was always his plan. Or at least making her think he's taking her child, depends on if he actually goes through with taking the child.
He's not her hero that she turned on. Yeah, he's charming and he appeals to the demographic of those that like to talk all smart so that people feel stupid about their morals.
But it doesn't change anything. He admitted that he's not a good person. He KNOWS he's taking advantage of Chris. But he's smart and manipulative enough to make her feel all the guilt. To break her, make squirm. Manipulative enough to make these damn readers root for him.
And that's brilliant on H0ly's part. But it makes his supporters.... suckers. I mean let's face it... he's a stalker and a baby snatcher... so... yeah. What else is there to it?

Reply FireStorm55 (Guest), June 12th, 2015, 1:22 pm

@Ultimate the Hedgehog: Anybody with half a functioning brain cell in their head should realize that somone claiming to have the ability to spin straw into gold will be called upon eventually to demonstrate it again. The smartest option would be to give no explination for the gold and bribe the guards and leave the castle quietly. Or at least to make sure to make it clear from the start that it was a one-time thing. (The king didn't get a bit threatening until after she said she could do it again. We have no way of knowing that he wouldn't have believed that it was a one-time thing if she'd said so in the first place. In fact, it would be more believable that it was a one-time thing because of where she comes from) But she chose to do the dumbest thing she could possibly do and claim that she made it AND
that she could make more to make herself sound more impressive, even though she knows full well that she can't spin so much a flake of gold and relies souly on the generosity of a secret creepy fair stalker for "her skill".

I wouldn't exactly call him "charming". He's a creep and a pervert. And kind of sadistic. I like him a lot /lot/ less than I'd like to. And I wouldn't be completely surprised if he did turn out to be evil.
I'm just not convinced that there's enough evidence to definitely say he had/has no good intentions behind what he's doing.

Reply Ultimate the Hedgehog, June 13th, 2015, 2:06 am

@FireStorm55: Uh no. Sometimes teenagers just don't think shit through. Sometimes people aren't that smart. Seriously. And once again, when compared to this asshole of a Fair... she's clearly not the bad guy. She never really was. Just impulsive. You really are holding it against her for lying about being the one to make the gold?
And no, the moment the prince brought it up again, he got threatening. I mean form the beginning anyone could see he was a controlling douche but the moment he showed Chris that room of straw, he made it clear that he didn't like his time being wasted.
I'm not denying Chris isn't all that smart but... again, she was young and really had never been out in the real world. No father and mother. A brother that worked himself to death. And always being told of how other people had much cooler lives than her. I can totally understand what she was thinking. Did I agree? No, not really. The Fair is right, Chris ditched Toby because she was lazy. Does that mean Toby deserved to pay for that? No. Did Chris deserve to to lose the last of her family? No. Does she deserve to have her son taken? No.
For her to put her family at risk like that was wrong. But the person who IS the risk... well they're wrong as well.

Reply FireStorm55 (Guest), June 13th, 2015, 1:45 pm

@Ultimate the Hedgehog: Didn't say she was THE bad guy. Just that she's stupid. And that's a really bad (and really painfully annoying) thing. I don't necisserily hold it against her that she claimed to make the gold. Just that it was a skill that she could call on whenever she wanted.
I want to call attention to before the room filled with straw when the king brought up "her" goldspinning power in the garden after she'd made the fountain explode. He menioned how it was amazing that she lived on a farm instead of in a palace with a talent like hers. That would have been the perfect time to admit that it was a rare, once-in-a-lifetime thing, but instead she said, "... some things are... um... easier to do when you really, really need it. And I'd be better if I was able to practice, you see! I mean, I have greeeeat potential and everything but I've never been allowed to practice..." "...Easier when you really, really need it..." "...I'd be Better if I was able to practice..." So what did the king do? He provided a situation where she really really needed to practice goldspinning. (it was still a wrong, douchbag move)
Given that Chris couldn't bring herself to be content at the farm, I think it was good that she tried for a new life. She might have been doing it for selfish reasons, but sticking around in a place that was making her miserable wasn't doing her or Toby any good. I really wish she'd seen going to the castle like the huge gamble it was, though, instead of assuming there was no possible way that royals could be bad people and she wouldn't love it.
I feel bad that Chris' gamble failed in such a drastic way. I didn't want Toby to die or whatever did happen to him... (demerits go to Rumplestiltskin for being so callous about it) and I didn't want her to be forced into a marriage she didn't want to be in. I did want something kind of bad to happen to her to fix the very annoying qualities of ignorance and arrogance she had way way too much of (whether or not it's understandable that she's like that, it's still annopying to watch and dangous to be and needs to stop as soon as possible.)... but not that bad.
Chris, Rumplstiltskin, and the King all form a triangle of "the person who is the risk". Rumple made the gold (and at that final deal demanded the kid) because the king was threatening Chris, who had decided to play a dangerous game and was making a crapton of the worst decisions to make...
They each share a lot of blame for the situation, but not all.

Reply Unclever title, June 12th, 2015, 8:40 am

To say either one is guiltless is wrong, naturally.

However the Fair's actions here are definitely more evil, and Christine's actions seem more foolish and desperate.

Both acted out of self interest, Christine had extenuating circumstances, the Fair... well to be honest we don't know his circumstances at all. So the natural assumption is that he didn't have extenuating circumstances, further to judge him by his own words emphasizing that Christine had a choice... so too did the Fair.

And he chose to take a son away from his mother. It's hard to imagine the circumstances that would extenuate that. Really the only thing that comes to mind is if he thought Christine wouldn't want the child after he was born.

But in that case the "kindness" would come from taking the child as soon as possible.

Yep, pretty condemnable actions there, Fair.

Reply NatsFan, June 12th, 2015, 4:02 pm

The morality here from Chris's perspective is pretty plain to me. She made a promise, but she made a promise to do an immoral thing: abandoning her son to a stranger who could do anything to him. It is not moral to uphold a promise to do something immoral. In this case the moral thing to do is to break the promise and protect the child.

Reply FireStorm55 (Guest), June 13th, 2015, 1:51 pm

@NatsFan: I agree. She shouldn't let him waltz off with Gabe without a fight.
Just so long as the "Don't lie about being able to spin gold when you can't" moral sticks. I feel that this moral always is way too overshadowed

Reply MilkMaidRum, June 12th, 2015, 8:42 pm

it would've been kinder of him to take the kid at birth. She's far too attached to him now.

Reply maaari (Guest), June 13th, 2015, 2:37 am

Maybe the King This is my random theory:
Maybe the king knew that the fair helped her. And maybe he wants to catch that fair (maybe to spinn more gold for him). Maybe the king had a plan and maybe he is going to rush into the room in a few pages.
Come on guys, anything can happen from now on :3
Maybe H0ly decides to make another flashback right now, just to extend this part of the story (I would laugh if he would do that xD)
I wonder...

Reply Guest Noodle (Guest), June 15th, 2015, 12:53 am

Man I could cut this sexual tension with a knife...
I STILL ship it.
There's a bed. Both of you obviously need to let off some steam....
Or you could just go with him Chris... leave this tight strung life and disappear off into wherever it is the Fair disappear to.

you know you want to...
No one would be able to find you... probably..

Reply Subaru (Guest), June 18th, 2015, 1:44 am

I CALLED IT IT! He DID do it to hurt her! >: (

Reply Harangue (Guest), August 26th, 2015, 10:54 pm

You've trapped yourself in a Hell of your own making. This is mainly all her fault, she had choices, and she kept choosing poorly, stupidly, and now she's paying for her poor decisions and yet still making MORE poor decisions.

Eventually everything will all come crashing down around her and she will finally realize this. And that scene will be gloriously heartbreaking.

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